Key Points
- Stuart Robert, who served as human services and government services minister, fronted the commission on Thursday.
- Hundreds of thousands of Australians were sent debt notices under the robodebt scheme.
- The scheme unlawfully recovered more than $750 million using a method of income averaging.
A former coalition minister has denied he dismissed legal advice about robodebt, telling a royal commission he presented it to then prime minister Scott Morrison "within two hours".
Stuart Robert, who served as human services and government services minister, fronted the commission on Thursday.
Hundreds of thousands of Australians were sent debt notices under the robodebt scheme that unlawfully recovered more than $750 million using a method of income averaging.
Mr Robert said his department did not provide advice from the Australian Government Solicitor highlighting problems with the way debts were raised when he became minister in May 2019.
He said the first he heard of it was in a meeting with his department in July of that year.
After the meeting, Mr Robert "held a strong personal view" that the sole use of averaged income data from the tax office was insufficient to raise a debt.
Yet in media appearances following that meeting, he continued to defend the scheme because it was still the government's policy and he was required to as a cabinet minister.
Commissioner Catherine Holmes asked if that included misrepresenting policies to the public.
Mr Robert said he "wouldn't put it that way" because his personal opinion could be wrong until proven otherwise by the solicitor-general.
"I've got to leave room for the fact that I may well be wrong ... I can't just give my personal opinion, I have got to continue to uphold the government policy," he said.
Former human services department secretary Renee Leon told the commission Mr Robert dismissed legal advice from the solicitor-general in 2019 that the scheme was unlawful.
Professor Leon said that when she presented the solicitor-general's findings, Mr Robert told her: "Well, secretary, legal advice is just advice."
Mr Robert rejected this claim, saying he presented the solicitor-general's advice to the prime minister "within hours".
Prof Leon told the commission she was forced to end the use of averaging to calculate debts because the government delayed making a decision to do so.
However, Mr Robert said it was his department who had "sat on" the legal advice.
"I asked for the advice on the fourth of July, I wanted it, the department took months and months to get it to me and when they had it, they ostensibly sat on it for six weeks to work through what to do," he said.
Mr Robert told the commission he took "absolute responsibility" for the failed policy as part of cabinet solidarity.
"But I also take responsibility for being the minister that called it out to say 'We've got to get advice' and stop it," he said.
Meanwhile, former social services department branch manager Emma Kate McGuirk was accused of withholding information from the commission about her knowledge of the use of income averaging as a last resort to raise debts.
Ms McGuirk previously gave evidence in November saying she did not know the human services department had used that method until 2017.
But an email discovered by the commission from 2015, when Ms McGuirk worked as a director in human services, indicated otherwise.
"As long as the customer is given the opportunity to correctly declare against each fortnight and apportionment is the last resort, we support what you are doing. Good luck!" the email from Ms McGuirk to another officer in human services said.
Ms McGuirk denied she had withheld the email from the commission and said she couldn't find it when she was preparing her statement.
