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TRANSCRIPT
Anna Henderson:
Firstly, the main questions that have come through to us have actually been about just really those specific issues that people are trying to understand around what to do when they go to cast their ballots. So once they enter the polling booth, what is your advice?
Pat Callanan:
Yeah, so if you voted in a federal election before, it will feel virtually the same. So you'll collect your one ballot paper instead of two from the authorising officer at the front, and then you go to the booth and you fill it out in your own privacy. So instead of numbering the two ballot papers, you just have to write either yes or no on your single ballot paper. And once you've done that, you can then put it in the ballot box, grab your democracy sausage and head off.
Anna Henderson:
A lot of our audience are from different backgrounds. What is your advice around what language you need to write that, yes or no?
Pat Callanan:
Yeah, really important with this one that you write it in English and in full. So if you're unsure about that, we have a number of tools in our website that can be used to assist you. So we have some practise voting tools. You can actually practise filling out a ballot paper online, and we also have a number of translated materials into over 30 different languages that are accessible in a number of different formats. So really encourage you to go to aec.gov au to check that out. Of course, if you need some assistance on the day as well, just speak to one of our staff. They're really friendly and they'll be able to help you with filling it out as well.
Anna Henderson:
You've made other efforts along the way to try and engage multilingual communities. What kinds of advice are you able to give around people who are struggling to understand this referendum, what it's about, what they're supposed to do and needing that assistance in another language?
Pat Callanan:
And there are lots of people in the same boat considering the fact that we last had a referendum in 1999, so it's been 24 years. A lot of people over 6.4 million people have never voted in one before, which actually includes myself. So very excited on that front. But if you want to find out more about the referendum process itself, you can go to our website. We've got lots of information there in terms of what a referendum actually is. So things like the fact that a referendum is needed to change the constitution or that the result is binding, all the information is there, as well as translated materials. If you're looking for information regarding the topic, you want to find out more about the specifics of what you're voting on. We have the question on our website, but anything beyond that goes beyond what we do as the independent umpire. So you can read the referendum booklet that's been mailed to all households, or you can go and learn more information from the campaigns themselves and see what they have to say.
Anna Henderson:
So in terms of the nuts and bolts of the day, is it too late to order a postal ballot now?
Pat Callanan:
Yeah, not at all. So really encourage you to go to our website and apply for a postal vote as soon as you can. Those applications close on the Wednesday before voting day, so that's the 11th of October. But would really encourage anyone considering that they are eligible for one, they won't go make it on the day to apply as soon as possible because then you'll make sure you get it in time. You need to have that signed, completed, and sent by the end of voting day, which is the 14th of October. So that's a really good option if you can't make it on the day. But the other thing to consider too is we'll have two weeks of early voting. So if you can't make it on the day from the second and 3rd of October, depending on the state you live in because of public holidays, you can go to any polling centre. We have open and cast your early votes, so we'll be publishing all those locations in the coming weeks. So keep an eye on our website and our social media for details on that to see which best suits your particular circumstances.
Anna Henderson:
And how do you prove your identity if you go in early? How do you prevent people from voting multiple times?
Pat Callanan:
Yeah, so we mark up your name off the electoral role. When you come in, we ask if you've voted before and what your name is, and then it's marked off. And we compare all the electoral roles after the event. So we make sure that people aren't voting multiple times. And from what we see, it's very, very rare that that actually happens. And in most cases, it's a case of confusion that someone might've been driven by a family member twice to vote. So it's a very rare thing with postal votes as well. When they're sent in, that's all certified and we make sure that someone hasn't also cast a vote in person before that postal vote is added to the count. So there's lots of security and integrity measures as part of that. And a really important component too is that we have independent scrutinies overseeing that entire process of the count.
Anna Henderson:
What if you are sick on the day and you can't actually make it to cast your a vote?
Pat Callanan:
So it probably depends at what stage you start to feel unwell. So if you're feeling sick before that Wednesday cutoff that I mentioned earlier, so three days before voting day apply for a postal vote, otherwise it's going to be a decision up to you. So depending on what you have no different than if you had the flu, make the best decision health-wise for you and you can act accordingly from there on.
Anna Henderson:
What about the logistics of just conducting this referendum? What kind of resources has the electoral commission needed to call upon, including transport to actually get to where the ballots need to go?
Pat Callanan:
So it is actually the biggest peacetime logistical event in Australia. It's absolutely massive. We're well versed it because we do it every three years for a federal election and a referendum is pretty similar in how that works, as well as resourcing all the different polling places and voting booths across cities and regional areas. We also have a thing called remote voter services. So we're going out across the entire country and making sure people can cast a vote, including in remote communities. So that can be quite an effort. Sometimes we use boats, light planes, helicopters. We've actually got four wheel drive training happening today. So these are the best of the best that we're sending out to make sure that we can collect these votes in these remote communities. And this is the biggest service offering we're actually ever offered this year. So over 750 communities will be visited.
So you can again check the website that's starting from the 25th of September, which is this coming Monday, and it'll be running for about three weeks as well. So it's a really massive effort on that front. The other thing to mention, Anna, is that we need a lot of workers, so we need over 100,000 temporary workers to make all this possible, and that's all members of the community. So it could be your mom, dad, siblings, and it's really important that we have local people working at these booths just like we would for a federal election. So really encourage you to put your hand up and apply if that's something you're interested in, you can earn some extra money and it's also a great way to learn about the referendum process.
Anna Henderson:
And are there any restrictions on those people who do take up that paid opportunity in terms of their advocacy for either side of the campaign?
Pat Callanan:
So the only qualification really is that you need to be politically neutral in your actions. So obviously we don't want campaigners working in those positions, but that won't apply to most people. So if you fit the bill, no other qualification required, we'll give you all the training you need. Please feel free to apply. And especially if you live in those regional or rural areas, we really need people to put their hands up in those locations as well.
Anna Henderson:
So if you're just joining us, we're speaking to the electoral commission about the upcoming referendum. We're really appreciating the time to ask questions from our audience. There's one that has come up quite a few times, and that is why is it not possible in 2023 for people to vote online?
Pat Callanan:
Yeah, I actually work on social media as well, Anna, and we get that question quite a lot. So it's pretty simple. The fact is it's not in the legislation. So we conduct both elections and referendums according to the electoral and referendum acts, and they state that we have to be doing it with pencil and paper, so we have to stick with the law with what we have there. Any changes for that would be a matter for parliament. But in terms of giving people confidence in the process that we do have, it's a really, really secure process. It's tried and tested, it's worked really well for over a hundred years, and we count the votes in person over the coming weeks after we collect them
Anna Henderson:
To quote Tom Rogers from the commission. Some of the things that have been said about this vote have been tinfoil hat bonkers, mad in his words. So let's just talk about some of those concerns that have been raised about the electoral commission. So just in terms of the suggestion that has been made online that some kind of dominion style voting machines exist in Australia and will be used for this ballot, what can you say about any of that kind of suggestion online?
Pat Callanan:
Yeah, we've certainly seen a slightly changing environment where there is a little bit of growth in terms of people spreading claims that aren't quite true about the electoral process. So Dominion voting machines is a really clear example of that where some people have claimed that we'll be using dominion voting machines and that will be used to rig the vote potentially. The easiest way to point out that's not true is the fact that we don't use voting machines in Australia. As I've just mentioned, it's all done by pencil and paper so you can find out that these ones aren't true. We've actually got a disinformation register on our website, which deals with some prominent claims we see online about the electoral process, or feel free to reach out to us on social media as well. We're really responsive and we want to make sure that we're active in correcting the record and people can feel confident in information about the electoral process. It's important to note though that in terms of the actual topic, we don't act as fact-checkers on that. We're all just about the process as the independent umpire securing those guardrails.
Anna Henderson:
You mentioned pencils, so that's another issue that people are quite energised about in some parts of the social media conversation. Is it possible to erase someone's ballot?
Pat Callanan:
No, it's not possible, and there's several reasons for that. The first of is that we have a really secure chain of custody for ballot papers. So in terms of that, ballot papers are always secured. They always have secure tags on them, tamper evident tape. It's almost onerous the level of security that we go to make sure that these ballot papers are secure at all times. There needs to be witnesses whenever those ballot boxes are opened and the seals are broken, and that's all done by authorised AEC staff. So very secure on that front. But the other thing is that we have independent scrutinies overseeing that entire process. So not only do we have a e c staff taking away security measures, we've got independent people looking over their shoulder to make sure that's all done correctly as well. So it'd be very difficult, in fact, impossible for a ballot to be altered. And one of the beauties of our system is the fact that ordinary people can act as scrutinies and oversee that they can challenge a result. If they don't like it, then it goes to someone more senior to have a look at it. So it's a really important part of our system that we have those independent scrutinies that oversee and verify that process.
Anna Henderson:
We know we've got the postal vote aspect and the pre poll and international voting. So how likely do you think it is given the numbers that we're familiar with around the interest in these types of voting that we will not have a result on the night?
Pat Callanan:
It's really hard to predict what's going to happen there, but I would say to people be prepared for there to potentially not be a result on the night. We've had 1.2 million postal vote applications already, and so that's about 200,000 more than we had at this same point last year. And the reason why a lot of postal votes can potentially make the result or the count take a little bit longer is the fact that we have to wait 13 days by the law for all postal votes to come in. So of course we're counting throughout that stage, but if it's a really close count, then it might not be clear. The indication result might not be clear until we actually get all those postal votes
Anna Henderson:
On the night. There'll be a staggered close of polls on the east coast. The polls will be closed. Will the A E C start counting straight away or wait until the polls close in wa?
Pat Callanan:
Yeah, so we'll be counting straight away as soon as we hit 6:00 PM in each time zone. So we'll be going according to local time. So once polls close at 6:00 PM you'll start to see results come in, which is just like a federal election as well. So you can check the results coming in at the tally room and our website, and we'll be having live indications of each state result as well as down to polling level as well.
Anna Henderson:
Just on the misinformation and disinformation aspect of this, if someone is to create a social media video out there in the community promoting either the no or the yes campaign, is that allowed and when do they have to get formal acknowledgement that it's part of the campaign?
Pat Callanan:
So there's a range of authorization requirements that are outlined by the referendum Act. I'd encourage you to go to the website because they can get quite technical. I wouldn't be able to list them all here not being a lawyer.
Anna Henderson:
I guess maybe what I should ask is, should people be concerned if they're making content and they're not formally associated with a campaign that they could be making something that's problematic?
Pat Callanan:
No. So if you're just an ordinary punter doing that, you don't need to worry about if you've just put a video up on YouTube or something. Those requirements only apply if there's certain monetary thresholds that are met or some requirements. But again, I'd encourage you just to have a read through our website all listed out there in in terms of what you need for an authorization requirement there. So go there, really handy fact sheet to have a look at.
Anna Henderson:
And do you find that social media companies are acting on the material that's flagged either in terms of the factual nature of the information and also whether it has a personal attack element?
Pat Callanan:
So we've seen a couple of things referred to social media this year and we see a combo of some things acted on other things, not so we'll continue to do that, but that's about 99.9% of the things we cover don't require a referral to social media companies. We're more than happy to step in and correct the record. And the most important thing is it's okay to ask questions and to be unsure about the electoral process. In fact, we welcome it. We really like, as an electoral nerd myself, I really like people chatting about it. So it's great to have those conversations and actually be able to step in and be an authoritative source if you are unsure about something or you see something that you're not sure it's quite right, just tag us on whatever social media platform you're on and we'll make sure to engage and give you some information on that.
Anna Henderson:
For anyone who has been following the ticks and crosses debate, just returning to that question of what people do when they enter to cast their ballot, can you just reiterate the view around ticks and crosses? It has been a matter of some serious public discussion.
Pat Callanan:
So in terms of the voting instructions for filling out your ballot paper, really important that you write either yes or no or no or yes, and those will actually be printed on the ballot paper itself. Again, you can practise voting and writing yes or no on our website, and if you're unsure further on the day, you can ask our staff for help. If you write anything else, it might leave your vote unclear and it might potentially mean it's not counted. So really, really encourage you to stick to writing in English, either yes or no or no or yes on that one there we
Anna Henderson:
Are seeing natural disasters potentially going to impact on people's ability to travel to cast their ballot, particularly in relation to the bushfire season. I mean, we're still a few weeks out. We don't know what the landscape is going to be like then what happens if someone's affected by a bushfire and can't get to the polling booth.
Pat Callanan:
So obviously it would depend at what stage that is, and I don't want to preempt anything happening on that front. This is where our other voting options really come up. So obviously people in those situations are going to have different priorities they need to attend to, but encourage you to look at our postal voting and early voting options if that were to apply. Otherwise on the day itself, it would depend what was happening there. But we work really closely with emergency management agencies across the country. We've got this all coordinated from our central command centre to make sure we're on top of that. So we'll be providing information to people that are in those circumstances to make sure that's really clear to people and do everything we can to ensure people can cast their vote.
Anna Henderson:
Now, as you said, you're following the social media conversation and you are a part of it. In terms of the AEC, trying to debunk misinformation, deal with concerns, is there anything else that you are seeing that you think does need to be addressed or that is coming up time and time again that people may need to be aware of?
Pat Callanan:
I think that in general, the fact that we haven't had a referendum in so long, there's just a lot of genuine confus or questions about what actually is a referendum. So some of the things we've been seeing a lot this year is questions about whether a referendum result is binding. The result is yes, the answer is yes, it is. You'd have to have another referendum to change the result if you want it on that one, and the fact that it's compulsory as well. So you do need to attend and vote in one way or another. It's really no different to a federal election in that regard. Like we've been talking about with postal votes as well, you have to apply for one of those. You can't expect to receive it. So if you don't apply for a postal vote, you'll need to actually vote on the day. So the easiest way to think of it is it's really, really pretty much the same as a federal election for what it feels like for a voter. You just need to either write yes or no in the ballot paper instead of numbering it.
Anna Henderson:
Well, thank you so much for your time and thank you to everyone who has tuned in for this discussion. You can keep on contacting us here at S B S with your questions and of course use the advice from the electoral Commission to educate yourself about how to participate in this referendum.
