Anthony Albanese and Peter Dutton smile as they stand side-by-side

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese (left) and Opposition Leader Peter Dutton during the first leaders' debate of the 2025 federal election campaign in Sydney on Tuesday, April 8. Source: AAP / Jason Edwards

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As it happened - Undecided voters reveal their verdict on the election debate winner

Anthony Albanese and Peter Dutton have gone head-to-head in their first debate of the 2025 federal election.

Anthony Albanese and Peter Dutton smile as they stand side-by-side

Prime Minister Anthony Albanese (left) and Opposition Leader Peter Dutton during the first leaders' debate of the 2025 federal election campaign in Sydney on Tuesday, April 8. Source: AAP / Jason Edwards

Published 8 April 2025 6:35pm
Updated 8 April 2025 11:45pm
Source: SBS News

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3 weeks ago8 Apr 9:07pm
Albanese wins the debate according to undecided voters
The undecided voters of the forum have provided their verdict, with almost half giving their vote to Anthony Albanese.

Forty-four of the 100 voters in the room thought Albanese won the debate, 35 voted for Dutton and 21 were undecided.
PINNED
3 weeks ago8 Apr 9:06pm
'His confidence was attractive': Audience weighs in
For IT worker Nizer, who was among tonight's audience, the prime minister was a clear winner.

"I think Albanese was pretty good," he told SBS News after the debate.

"His confidence was attractive to be honest. He was very confident about his policies, he was very good with the numbers and very steady and smiling every time.

"As compared to Dutton, he was not good with the numbers."

He felt the Opposition leader appeared nervous.

Nizer said cost-of-living measures would ultimately sway his vote.
3 weeks ago8 Apr 9:59pm
We're wrapping up
That's all for our live coverage of the first leaders debate this election campaign.

This evening Prime Minister Anthony Albanese and Opposition leader Peter Dutton were grilled by an audience of 100 undecided voters in western Sydney.

The voters backed Albanese as the winner of the debate by 44 votes, compared to 35 votes for Dutton. There were also 21 people still undecided.

During the debate:
  • Dutton accused Albanese of running a scare campaign on Medicare and education.
  • Dutton was asked about cuts to international students and whether this would put up university fees
  • A public school teacher asked if there would be extra funding for public schools
  • Albanese said "fuel excises will disappear" and he wanted "permanent" cuts
  • Leaders were asked about the war in Gaza
  • The PM asked Dutton what the Coalition plans to cut in order to deliver its nuclear plan
  • Dutton was asked about respectful debates on migration
  • Leaders were grilled about housing and foreign buyers
3 weeks ago8 Apr 9:37pm
Peter Dutton's father in stable condition
Ahead of the debate reports indicated Peter Dutton's father had been taken to hospital. SBS News can confirm Dutton's father Bruce was admitted to hospital and is in a stable condition.
3 weeks ago8 Apr 9:32pm
Leaders ask each other a question: They chose to attack on spending and cuts
The two leaders were given the opportunity to ask each other a question.

Dutton chose to ask Albanese: "Are you the biggest spending government since Whitlam?"

Albanese responded: "That's not true - except for the one that you were a part of during COVID. It's also true that there was a $78 billion deficit planned in the 2022 election (prior to Albanese winning)".

The Prime Minister chose to ask the Opposition leader: "You opposed every cost of living measure we've put forward ... now going to election with nuclear plan ... what are you going to cut to pay for it?"

Dutton hit back saying "that's a very dishonest proposition".

He said the capital cost of nuclear was estimated to be $120 billion, while the Labor's renewables only policy was $600 billion.

"Our policy is 44 per cent cheaper."
3 weeks ago8 Apr 8:47pm
Debate's most memorable moment?
The debate has concluded, the audience will now deliver its verdict on which leader has won.

While both leaders appeared prepared, comfortable on stage, and had a warm rapport with the audience — the debate offered little beyond the well-rehearsed political lines we have come to expect from both leaders over the course of this parliament.

The biggest policy fractures appeared on energy — which delivered some of the only impromptu barbs from either leader during the night.

Perhaps the most memorable moment was when moderator Kieran Gilbert asked the audience to raise their hands if they were doing it tough — which the Opposition leader described as "confronting."

Overall, a well mannered debate. Democracy in action.

— Sara Tomevska
3 weeks ago8 Apr 8:45pm
'Coalition will always be better economic manager' Dutton says
Peter Dutton has thanked the prime minister and the audience for attending.

"When the Prime Minister says that this has been a successful three year period, it's just in defiance of the reality of people's lives and where we are as a country right now," he begins.

"A Coalition government will always be a better economic manager.

“The Prime Minister spent the first 16 months of his term obsessing about the Voice, which was a $425 million red-herring that proved to be a distraction and attempt to divide the country, and when that debate was taking place, the Prime Minister should have been making decisions around how best to protect us from inflation.

"I want to make sure that we can restore the dream of home ownership. I want to make sure that we can deliver a first class health system. I want to make sure that we can live in a safe country."

— Sara Tomevska
3 weeks ago8 Apr 8:42pm
'Money has to come from somewhere' Albanese says in closing statement
Anthony Albanese has delivered his closing statement.

"Peter [Dutton] said there’d be no cuts to health, no cuts to education, no cuts to the ABC. But they said that last time when they came to office in 2013," Albanese begins.

"Now, if you have a $600 billion nuclear plan, you've got to make cuts. The money has to come from somewhere."

"We have been a responsible government that has delivered budget surpluses that have got the budgeting embedded in it.

"We've provided cost of living support when it's needed, whilst getting inflation down.

"But there's more to do to build on the foundations to build a stronger future, and I know that in this uncertain time with what's going on in the world now, it's not the time to make cuts to have the sort of policies that we've seen in the last week, where they've chopped and changed even before the election.

"So how can you believe what they do after the election?"
3 weeks ago8 Apr 8:36pm
No cuts to health and no deals with the Greens
Peter Dutton has definitively ruled out any cuts to health, as well as put the nail in the coffin of the short-lived work from home policy.

Both leaders have ruled out deals with the Greens.

— Sara Tomevska
3 weeks ago8 Apr 8:35pm
Leaders grilled about housing and foreign buyers
The leaders have faced a question about housing and the level of foreign buyers.

"We have a lot of housing within the city areas that are empty because they are owned by foreigners who do not live in this country," the questioner asked.

Dutton pointed to the Coalition's policy for $5 billion to build 500,000 homes, to cut to migration to get Australian kids into housing, and a two-year ban on foreign buyers from purchasing existing housing stock.

"That's because I don't want foreign buyers competing against young Australians at auctions or at the sale of the house that they thought they're buying," Dutton said in response.

The Prime Minister has a go: "Effectively, we have put in place a two-year ban on foreign ownership of homes.

"We think that's appropriate at the moment, in order to ensure that homes are available for Australians, we're increasing supply in housing, whether it be private rentals, whether it be public and social housing (where I grew up) or whether it be home ownership as well."

Dutton was pressed by 74-year-old grandmother Janine about why the two-year ban on foreign home buyers only applied to existing homes rather than new builds.

He said that new unit developments require pre-sales in order to get the finance.

"What we didn't want to do was cut out some of those pre sales, and a portion of some of those pre sales will be to foreign students, for example. But it allows that project to get up and running, and it allows those 200 units to come onto the market."

— Sara Tomevska and Anna Henderson
3 weeks ago8 Apr 8:29pm
Dutton doesn't answer what he'll do to ensure respectful debates on migration
A young audience member has asked the Opposition leader about his migration cut plans and how they will affect industries like health care and construction.

Growing up in a migrant family, she ended her question around maintaining respect during these discussions.

"What will you do to ensure migration discussions remain respectful and avoid demonising migrants?," she asked.

"I think we are a greater country because of our migrant story and I think we should celebrate it more as a country," Peter Dutton responded.

"But we have to have a well-managed program," he said

He said Australia needs to reduce migration by 25 per cent, but did not answer the question around respectful discussions.
3 weeks ago8 Apr 8:28pm
Should renewables or nuclear be subsidised?
The renewables versus nuclear debate has kicked off.

Peter Dutton says he has reservations about policies on renewables and whether they are equitable.

"The Prime Minister's policy in relation to batteries is that he's asking you to provide a subsidy, or to support a subsidy for people on higher incomes, like me, to buy a battery at a subsidised price," Dutton said.

"I'm not going to say to you that we're going to support a policy where people who are on lower incomes, who are struggling at the moment, are expected to subsidise a battery for people on higher incomes."

Albanese has clapped back, pointing out all taxpayers would be subsidising the Coalition's nuclear policy, which is being proposed as a publicly funded project.

Dutton delivered a retort about the public money that's gone into Labor's green hydrogen investments.

— Anna Henderson
3 weeks ago8 Apr 8:26pm
'Gaslighting the Australian public': PM questions nuclear plan
The Prime Minister has asked Peter Dutton what the Coalition plans to cut to deliver its nuclear plan.

"You have opposed every cost of living measure that we've put forward over the last three years in government, you have proposed seven nuclear reactors that will cost $600 billion to provide 4 per cent of power sometime in the 2040s.

"What are you going to cut to pay for it, because the private sector won't fund nuclear reactors, because it doesn't stack up."

The Opposition leader has replied:

"The life of the nuclear reactors last between 80 and 100 years, and that cost is spread over that time. If renewables are so much cheaper, as the Prime Minister keeps telling me, why has he broken his promise of a $275 a year cut to your electricity bill, when, in actual fact, it's gone up by $1,300 under this government?"

"The difference between the two policies is that our policy is 44 per cent cheaper, and in the interim, we increased the supply of gas into the market, because gas helps create electricity."

The PM responds with what one can only assume was a pre-planned zinger:

"The only gas policy that the Coalition has is the gaslighting of the Australian public."
3 weeks ago8 Apr 8:23pm
Senior government and opposition figures in the room
Watching on in the room are senior Labor and Coalition figures.

Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles, finance minister Katy Gallagher, and home affairs minister Tony Burke.

I can spy shadow Home Affairs minister James Paterson, shadow treasurer Angus Taylor and former Liberal turner independent Dai Le, who won the seat of Fowler off Labor in 2022.

— Sara Tomevska
3 weeks ago8 Apr 8:20pm
Is the Medicare card just a 'stunt'?
The Medicare card has come out of the pocket. This is Anthony Albanese's campaign calling card.

The question is about the gap fee that families are paying. The Prime Minister is highlighting the policy to triple the bulk billing incentive, but Peter Dutton says the Medicare card is a "stunt" and the reality is many people are paying more to go to the doctor now.

This is a moment in this debate. Anthony Albanese is taking Peter Dutton to task over his record in government.

"But Peter, you tried, when you were the Health Minister, you tried to abolish bulk billing by having a fee every time people visit a doctor or every time people visit an emergency department.

"That's what you did as health minister, and when you couldn't get that through, you froze the Medicare rebate, which stayed frozen for six years. That's why we are having to deal with this."

Peter Dutton says that's "factually incorrect". He says under the Coalition's watch the bulk billing rate increased.

"We were trying, and we will always do our best, and that's why we've supported the funding now to build general practice, I want to see a strong primary care network, because if we do that, we can stop presentations at emergency departments. We can stop we can detect earlier cancers."

— Anna Henderson
3 weeks ago8 Apr 8:12pm
Halfway point of the debate
We are at the halfway point of the debate and the leaders have been invited to put questions directly to each other.

Up until now the debate has been largely a polite contest of competing claims.

Both leaders are exhibiting some serious discipline in their approach. Though they are competing for the most incredulous facial expression.

— Anna Henderson
Anthony Albanese watches Peter Dutton speak
Peter Dutton (right) speaks while Anthony Albanese looks on. Credit: Jason Edwards/AAPIMAGE
3 weeks ago8 Apr 8:12pm
Dutton questions PM's economic track record
Peter Dutton has put his first question forward to the prime minister, questioning the government's spending.

"Are you the biggest spending government since Whitlam? So in forty years.. Is that correct?" Dutton said.

"That's not true, except for the one that you were a part of," Albanese said.

Albanese pointed to delivering two budget surpluses after inheriting a $78 billion deficit.

"Debt is $100 billion less now than what was anticipated in the March 2022 budget," he added.

— Ewa Staszewska
3 weeks ago8 Apr 8:09pm
Leaders asked about Gaza conflict
A questioner has raised the war in Gaza, saying they have loved ones affected by the conflict.

The Prime Minister was asked what he will do "to address the genocide in Gaza" and why Australia is sending weapons to Israel.

"This has been a very traumatic period for many Australians with family in Israel and Gaza and indeed, in Lebanon," Albanese said.

"My government's approach is that every human life matters, and we want a ceasefire. We want to see hostages released. We want to see aid get through to Gaza."

"I must say, that there are no Australian weapons involved … that is just not the case."

Peter Dutton has also said he wants to see peace, but he's defended Israel's actions.

"I want to see peace in the Middle East as well. But what we saw when Hamas took hostages and took people into the tunnel network, that was an action which, if it had, it had happened to Australians, there would have been an expectation of our government to react, to send in the SAS, to make sure that we recovered those people as quickly as possible.

"I want to make sure that in our country, people can celebrate their heritage and celebrate their connections to a country of origin, or to a country which is important to them.

“But when you come to our country, it's about celebrating being Australian."

— Anna Henderson and Sara Tomevska
3 weeks ago8 Apr 8:03pm
PM warns 'fuel excise will disappear'
Host Kieran Gilbert has asked the prime minister why he has not introduced a fuel excise, after the Coalition committed to a cut for 12 months.

"Fuel excises will disappear," Albanese has responded.

"This is from the Scott Morrison playbook. What we want is things that are permanent."

He has instead pointed to Labor's policies: tax cuts, free TAFE, taking 20 per cent off student debt, and reducing medicines under the PBS to $25.

All of these measures will have a long term impact on cost of living for voters.

"We have put in place what we can," he said.
3 weeks ago8 Apr 8:03pm
Will public schools get further funding?
Public school teacher Monika has asked if there will be additional funding for public schools.

Dutton has said he supports increased funding for both public and private schools.

"It is important we have an education system that is fit for purpose," he said.

The Prime Minister says last time the government changed in 2014, billions was ripped out of education and health. Dutton has denied this claim live, labelling Albanese "dishonest".

Albanese has pointed to $14.6 billion deal with states and territories secured under his government.

"If a child falls behind, Naplan is too late. We want to do testing in year one, so if a child falls behind they can get tutoring… if you address that really early, every child has an opportunity to fulfill their potential," he said.
3 weeks ago8 Apr 7:59pm
Will cuts to university migration put Aussie student fees up?
Peter Dutton has been challenged by an audience question about his plan to cut the number of international students attending Australian universities.

Jason asked how universities would afford it and whether his son's university fees would go up.

Dutton said the government provides university funding and the migration program needs to be reduced to free up housing.

He appeared to make a commitment here, saying: "So it doesn't impact on the cost of a domestic student going to university."

The Prime Minister says the only reason the numbers went up so quickly was due to the post COVID-19 borders opening back up and that overall migration had been below pre-COVID predictions.

He's also pointed to Labor's plan to put a cap on university places but that hasn't been passed by the federal parliament.
3 weeks ago8 Apr 7:54pm
How many people are doing it tough?
Host Kieran Gilbert just asked the room, by show of hands how many people are doing it thought. Many hands went up.

Asked why he did not back the Coalition’s fuel excise pledge, the prime minister said that measure would "disappear in a year".

"What we want is things that are permanent," Albanese said.

"So our tax cuts will be permanent. Free TAFE will be permanent. Taking 20 per cent of student debt will be permanent. The reduction of medicines down to $25 - the same costs that they were in 2004 will be a long term difference."

— Sara Tomevska
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